syphon recorder

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  • #4634
    hcgilje
    Participant

    Hi,
    great to see the first version of the syphon recorder!

    I did some simple tests with a jitter syphon server sending out a 640×480 quicktime movie with numbered frames to check for frame drops and duplications. I unfortunately got quite a few framedrops and duplications, so I wonder if there are any specific tricks with the syphon recorder settings to improve this. I tried a few different codecs and resolutions, but the frame drops seemed to happen anyway. And the server is just playing back the 640×480 movie, so very little gpu/cpu activity.

    I did these tests on a 2009 macbookpro, nvidia geforce 9600M GT

    Are you going to support more recording codecs, like apple prores LT?

    Looking forward to see how this develops.

    hc

    #4635
    hcgilje
    Participant

    Ok, one obvious thing I had left out in my test server was to set the unique parameter to 1, that improved the results. I am hoping to do some tests with a much more complex setup the next few days.
    I am wondering if you would consider a possibillity for osc or similar control of the snapshot feature, this would allow for the possibillity of doing non-realtime recording at full quality and no dropped frames.

    hc

    #4636
    bangnoise
    Keymaster

    Hi, and thanks for the feedback

    “non-realtime recording at full quality and no dropped frames” is not what Syphon Recorder is about. If that’s your aim, I’d flat-out suggest you try other methods.

    This is a first beta, so forgive us if performance isn’t quite perfect yet…

    In brief:
    Jitter is a poor choice for movie playback – make a jitter patch that generates an image with a frame number in it, so you can be certain you’re serving one unique number per frame.

    Select “Syphon Recorder Help” from the Help menu: there is some advice on compressors. The short answer is, unless you need transparency, use AIC.

    Any other disk activity will impair performance: quit applications you’re not using, turn off Time Machine.

    The ProRes codecs seem to perform (very!) well, so yes, we probably will support them. Thanks for the suggestion.

    Cheers, and let us know how you get on – Tom

    #4637
    sandroid
    Participant

    where could I find the syphon recorder?
    I noticed that the version available for download in the syphon page is the beta 1. Is that correct? If so, where could I find the beta 2? Or the latest version is available as source code only?

    #4638
    bangnoise
    Keymaster

    where could I find the syphon recorder?

    http://bit.ly/h1cLS5

    #4639
    sandroid
    Participant

    thanx a lot

    #4640
    hcgilje
    Participant

    @Tom,
    as I wrote in my initial post, I did make a movie with numbered frames to check for drops and duplicate frames.

    I know that non-realtime is not the focus of the recorder, but it would still be a reasonable alternative to compile a movie from a series of stills if I want every frame to be captured at full res. Anyway, I should be able to script this if I need to.
    As long as jitter still isntt able to do full quality hardware accellerated non-realtime recordings I am looking for other options. If you have any other suggestions for how to do this I would love to hear about it, it is my biggest frustration that I cant do a proper recording of my work.

    Whats nice with the syphon recorder is that it is super simple to use, and it just works.

    #4641
    bangnoise
    Keymaster

    as I wrote in my initial post, I did make a movie with numbered frames to check for drops and duplicate frames.

    As I wrote in my initial reply, don’t do it like that. Generate numbered frames dynamically, not from a movie. You can’t be sure jitter will play every frame of a movie, or render frames only once.

    I can’t give you jitter advice I’m afraid, because I can barely use it myself.

    If you have real-world usage of Syphon Recorder with jitter that isn’t working as well as you’d like it to, please e-mail us

    The simplest possible Max patch which reproduces the problem
    A very short recorded movie and an explanation of what’s wrong with it
    A screenshot of the Preferences window in Syphon Recorder with the settings you used to record the movie.

    #4642
    hcgilje
    Participant

    The unique 1 feature of jit.qt.movie is to specifically only bang out unique frames, but anyway, I was just trying to provide feedback on your app. I will post info on my further testing if you find it useful.

    #4643
    vade
    Keymaster

    Well, part of the issue is that Jitter is in fact Jittery for normal QT playback, and because all of this is also contingent on how you are sending frames to OpenGL. If you continuously bang the renderer or have the texture sent to the syphon server banged you will cause additional and possibly duplicate frames sent out from Jitter to Syphon, even though you have @unique 1 specified in your jit.qt.movie. The frame duplication is also an issue on how GL is drawn and handled. Suffice it to say it is nuanced.

    #4644
    bangnoise
    Keymaster

    Are you going to support more recording codecs, like apple prores LT?

    We’ve just posted beta 2, which adds support for Apple ProRes 422, Apple ProRes 422 (HQ) and Apple ProRes 422 (LT).

    http://bit.ly/h1cLS5

    #4645
    gavspav
    Participant

    Its not working for me – crashing on start up – although it could be cos I dont know how to use it.

    It is on a hackintosh (cant use wireless network on my macbook pro with 10.6!) but I havent experienced any other problems. 10.6.3, 8600 gts some kind of quad core cpu Q8600 I think.

    I hate threads which have loads of error message in them so as a crap compromise, here is half of it! Hopefully the useful bits.

    Exception Type: EXC_BREAKPOINT (SIGTRAP)
    Exception Codes: 0x0000000000000002, 0x0000000000000000
    Crashed Thread: 0 Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread

    Application Specific Information:
    *** Terminating app due to uncaught exception ‘NSInternalInconsistencyException’, reason: ‘Invalid parameter not satisfying: aTitle != nil’
    *** Call stack at first throw:

    Thread 0 Crashed: Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
    0 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x9245da07 ___TERMINATING_DUE_TO_UNCAUGHT_EXCEPTION___ + 7
    1 libobjc.A.dylib 0x97e8b509 objc_exception_throw + 56
    2 com.apple.AppKit 0x949b0823 -[NSSelectionBinder _adjustObject:mode:observedController:observedKeyPath:context:editableState:adjustState:] + 1676
    3 com.apple.AppKit 0x94885867 -[NSValueBinder _observeValueForKeyPath:ofObject:context:] + 280
    4 com.apple.AppKit 0x949b018f -[NSSelectionBinder observeValueForKeyPath:ofObject:change:context:] + 340
    5 com.apple.AppKit 0x94800051 -[NSBinder _performConnectionEstablishedRefresh] + 85
    6 com.apple.AppKit 0x947f2754 -[NSObject(NSKeyValueBindingCreation) bind:toObject:withKeyPath:options:] + 721
    7 com.apple.AppKit 0x9489e6b3 -[NSNibBindingConnector establishConnection] + 156
    8 com.apple.AppKit 0x947cda8b -[NSIBObjectData nibInstantiateWithOwner:topLevelObjects:] + 1249
    9 com.apple.AppKit 0x947cbba0 loadNib + 257
    10 com.apple.AppKit 0x947caf99 +[NSBundle(NSNibLoading) _loadNibFile:nameTable:withZone:ownerBundle:] + 228
    11 com.apple.AppKit 0x947caeaa +[NSBundle(NSNibLoading) loadNibFile:externalNameTable:withZone:] + 158
    12 com.apple.AppKit 0x947cadf5 +[NSBundle(NSNibLoading) loadNibNamed:owner:] + 383
    13 com.apple.AppKit 0x947c7bf9 NSApplicationMain + 434
    14 …v002.syphon.Syphon-Recorder 0x00002cd5 0x1000 + 7381

    #4646
    vade
    Keymaster

    That crash is not a crash with the Syphon framework or any deep internals of the app, but rather a loading issue with the Nib. Can you re-download the app? I note you are on 10.6.3, perhaps this is an issue with 10.6.3, and you being on a hackintosh?

    Can you copy the Syphon Recorder to a real mac running a current OS and try it there, please?

    #4647
    hcgilje
    Participant

    I tried the latest beta last night and I am really starting to like this recorder 🙂

    Great to have the prores codecs, which at least gives good results for me (1024×768, 30 fps, high quality).

    In fact, it is now so close to being perfect that I wonder if the occasional glitches I experience would be gone with a slightly better graphics card/computer (I am on a 2009 macbook pro with a NVIDIA GeForce 9600M GT 512mb VRAM graphics card).

    A feature request: keyboard shortcuts for the snapshot and record buttons, or even cooler (but I guess harder to implement) OSC control to be able to trigger snapshot and record from the source app.

    #4648
    bangnoise
    Keymaster

    @gavspav can you e-mail contact@v002.info and I’ll (eventually) reply with an update for you to test, to see if we can eliminate the crash.

    @hcjilje What sort of occasional glitches? Occasional dropped frames, or clusters of dropped frames, or something else entirely? What framerate is the source sending frames at?

    A feature request: keyboard shortcuts for the snapshot and record buttons

    See the File menu. Those will work from any app, as long as Recorder is running. The Help file mentions this, we should probably force people to read it at first launch…

    Yea maybe OSC/MIDI, eventually…

    #4649
    hcgilje
    Participant

    re:keyboard shortcuts
    I am blind. I even checked the menus before posting. Thanks for including this!

    by glitches I mean occasional dropped/duplicated frames.
    I am testing this on layers of slow-moving waveforms, so it is quite noticeable as the waves appears to stutter occasionally.

    I try to match the framerate I want to record to in my sourcepatch, so I am not trying to send out 60fps when I want to record 30fps.
    It actually surprises me that the framerate in my sourcepatch is affected very little by the syphon recording, so I am curious if the recording would be even better if more resources was located to the recording process (I have no clue if this even makes sense).

    It seems quite often that the framerate of my recorded movies are 1 frame below what I specify, ie when I specify 30 fps, quicktime player tells me its 29 fps, same if I specify 25 fps, quicktime reports it as 24 fps.

    For those occasions when I do need to record every frame, I did a small test yesterday using syphon recorder as a NRT recorder. Although that is not its primary purpose, this works pretty well, and unlike jitter you actually get full quality output on recorded frames.

    #4650
    bangnoise
    Keymaster

    @hcgilje

    Because Syphon presents a single live video surface, and not a series of frames, eliminating duplicates is something of an imprecise science.

    Can you try the following and let me know how you get on:

    Set up your source patch to send frames at 30 fps
    Set up Syphon Recorder to capture at 60 fps

    The fps setting in Recorder is a limit, so you should end up with a movie close to the rate of the source. Is it nicer than with Recorder set to 30 fps?

    #4651
    hcgilje
    Participant

    There doesnt seem to be a big difference in terms of frame duplicates when playing source back at 30 fps and recording at 60 fps. However, quicktime now reports 30fps for the recorded movie.

    #4652
    bangnoise
    Keymaster

    Any improvement on frame drops?

    Perhaps if you can post the simplest possible patch which you feel is giving inadequate output, and the exact settings you are using in Syphon Recorder’s preferences, we’ll have a bit more to work on. A general air of dissatisfaction isn’t enough 😉

    #4653
    bangnoise
    Keymaster

    @gavspav if you’re still following – can you try the new beta 4 and let us know if you still hit that crash, cheers

    http://bit.ly/h1cLS5

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